Talk:2020-07-26 Ashes Pathfinder Podcast with Steven Sharif

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47:38

heart are back to you too friend thanks so much i don't know if that's steven but whoever's whoever is behind the Ashes of Creation name in chat much love thanks for the clarification friend great mind thinks uh thanks a lot i i understand what's steven's going after here nice man nice nice i appreciate it and welcome steve and always a pleasure to have you here hanging out in chat by the way uh i just want to like take this moment to say i've got a page and a half of like some pretty good questions from people in the community and it's growing at an exponential rate in your abundant spare time if you're able to please let me know and yeah do a q a like i think i like legit q a not like super hardcore more discussion orion because that's how we do things but i mean there's like some really good questions from the community i've been i've been telling them too and i was gonna say here if you guys have been putting your minds around any of the the ideas the thoughts that you have been the community's got some really good points i've been putting them together in a in a document over the past week and i'm at like a page and a half and those are the ones i consider like really good that's not even on the ones that are on two other documents with my scattered uh weekly micro aneurysms that i'm having where i'm trying to like document everything going on so yeah you guys in the community have come up with some pretty cool stuff that have actually given me as dairy crafters some some pretty interesting thoughts around some of these systems but speaking of systems now daedalus actually had uh some thoughts around the bard and i don't know why i don't know why he would have thoughts around the bard it's almost like wait you're you're actually the ashen herald on twitter and youtube right indeed i am right so let me preface this with the question and answer real quick and then i'm gonna let you kind of take the kind of steer the ship on this one the question was well and that this is will base classes like clerics be the only ones with direct healing for other players i'm thinking this is where your mind's coming from right because he talks about the bard here and it says cleric and bard this is the answer cleric and bard classes can directly heal others bards will be much less and they will be proximity based as opposed to clerics direct target heals the base cleric will indeed be the predominant healing class with more proc based healing for the barred role through the secondary class augments you can grant yourselves or mitigate sorry or mitigated healing for your party members by augmenting your primary skills also we tested this in our castle siege test with pi where we had action-based skills where you could fire off heels in a direction and they would home in on allies to heal them we've not yet decided on whether we will implement this though and take it away your thoughts okay so um just kind of as an aside to this um actually my wife and i were talking about this particular topic before the show and she actually mentioned to me something that i thought would be relevant um a lot of people are really interested in support classes even in games that don't have them so mmo champion put out a poll i don't know how old it was how recent it was but it asked no what class would you most like to have available in world of warcraft and the resounding answer the top answer was bart or one of the top answer was bard so it made me think a lot about this question and really wanted to hear people's thoughts on support classes and you know how well they've been implemented in other games and particularly what they think is going to be really important to implement in Ashes of Creation um i did like the idea of again having active skills for a bard so seeing the fact that you know a barred cleric or a cleric bard you know has has some availability of being able to heal and have it be maybe not as powerful as say you know full-blown cleric but still have that ability to do it i would like to you know come have the you know have the community to discuss that a little bit more i had a lot of history with i would say support classes in one game in particular city of heroes um i did also play in dark age of camelot i played a bard but that was a very passive class and though i liked what i was able to do in the party in dark age of camelot it wasn't as fun as when i did it in um you know in city of heroes because there was a lot of active things i needed to do um in order to play my controller or play my support class so i'd be interested to you know to hear what people's thoughts are and what you know was good about support classes they've played in other mmos and and kind of just building off of what you know stephen had mentioned about the bard and just one type of spell of heal but i'd like to hear about other people's feedback on that i need to understand one thing before uh we say anything what do you mean by support class like full-on support that only buffs and heals you or do you expect them to do anything else very good question so one of the things that i really find um disappointing and say something like world of warcraft is crowd control is not really something people really do a lot of right at least in the experience i've had in recent history it's it's always been like a dps or heal race i mean cc isn't really that big of a deal i mean it has some uses situationally but it's not a big thing so i would say in addition to buffs in addition to heals i would say cc as well right mez confuse you know stun that kind of thing and again stunned at or mas as a crowd control tool not necessarily like the sun locking that rogues do that we are such a fan of in this community especially simon skills online i want to talk to you right now i'll bring some lights justice to the face let's go sorry a little heated there in game metaphorically i i just want to say city of heroes was i i loved playing that game it was so much fun like literally just for the flying just to be able to fly around however you want that was just amazing i'm very sad that that game shut down when it did anyway um so bards support classes it's been implemented in a number of ways one thing i hate this is a pet peeve of mine is when you've got a um where you basically just bake buffs into a normal dps rotation so if we take an example in final fantasy 14 you've got a bard and it's got buffs on it but you literally just do a normal dps rotation and the buffs are passively applied to everybody who's around you that's me kind of defeats the point in having a support class in the first place i think it should be a distinct different play style to a normal dps class yeah we prevent jalon jalon is in the chat by the way paradox gaming yeah we pretend that the bar doesn't exist in final fantasy 14 oh man yeah um what i'd really love to see is um support skills how they were handled in the original guild wars which were amazing because they were very they were short duration and they usually only affected one to two people so for example you might have a ability that you apply it to a target to an ally and then if that ally gets hit by a spell that spell rebounds on the attacker something like that really really awesome just support skills like that and the reason why i prefer that kind of style is because you have to really think about who you're putting the spells on and at what time you're doing as opposed to just doing a normal rotation and the bus get applied normally i think that is far more engaging gameplay then i say how final fantasy 14 does the buffs yeah i enjoyed the paladin i enjoyed the paladin in final fantasy 14 up until the last expansion but anyway oh mick j yes bard is confirmed on wait did you already get on the did you did you reiterate on the point daedalus about the mmo champion poll too i did yes okay i haven't totally missed it my bad anyway bazel glenn what's it called um actual creation already said that the healer isn't going to be full-time you know they're going to be like it's they're going to make it heals and they will be able to attack at the same time so it's going to be like offensive type of heal when it comes to gameplay so i really like that but when it comes to the bride i don't i have no clue how they're going to do the fight um unfortunately i have not played an mmo that has a full dedicated support class except the healer yet like i haven't reached to the point of final fantasy where i i played a support class so oh shit no man uh was this coordinated yeah i think what it was back to back dude you guys thanks so much for the wood chip for 10 gifted subs again yet again and again and mick jay thanks for the 10 gifted subs you guys are amazing holy hell thank you you guys probably broke the hype train honestly are you surprised after the past week holy crap man thanks guys but also just i'm not prepared he did piggybacked on his warning it's almost like a set up now man holy crap i don't know man anyway what what okay so yeah this is i'm trying to keep my my stuff together man i'm trying all right thanks a lot i have to i have to question uh missed and daedalus about this well what do you guys think when they try to integrate other classes into the support classes now because okay if you just talk about the primary classes alone i understand but once they try to influence from class to class on each other how is that going to play how how would you balance it at least see this is the kind of stuff that keeps me awake at night when i think about the bard is like mind blown right i can understand how a controller or bard or support class plays by itself right but then at this second layer that's the part that i'm still trying to work out is how that's going to work i mean a long time back i had some thoughts i can't think of any of them right now because i'm brain dead but but the long and the short of it is i think as long as they really make an effort to make the utility of a support class something that's needed as opposed to something that's oh that's nice to have or something that's passive then i'm okay with it um i like i haven't played personally i haven't played final fantasy um mmo so i'm a little uh not educated in that area so if it is pretty cool i definitely want to try to get my hands on it and just experience it just to get some ideas but i played one of the most fun sets of moments i've had in mmos was in city of heroes was where i did absolutely no damage whatsoever as a controller but i was able to toss people around like with gales of wind hold people trip people with earthquakes and you know stone and all that that was really cool to me because it was really active it made me think of not only who i was casting the spells on but what my positioning is which way is this going to toss enemies am i going to piss off my tank or am i going to corral everything into a certain area so my team can really nuke the you know nuke the enemies and just make it through right it made to me it made a lot of sense to have that class there i've just been in other games where having that class it was like you could take it you could leave it so that's why i really like to kind of know more and that's where i i don't have an answer for you faisal other than i really hope whatever they do it is something that they can nail and it's something that truly makes the bard unique and makes all those augmentations that come along with that unique as well because i think the the favorite that stephen tends to use is how a fighter can add a teleport augment to a charge right that's pretty basic but it still doesn't answer those broader questions about how a bard is going to play when you add that second layer so um yeah so i don't have an answer for you other than i'm just as jumping at the bit as you are on answering that question yeah like it's it's it's really super hard uh like and um i have a second question to also missed um when you said like you would expect us bards to do cc's how are you going to balance that out with fighters or rogues who can also cc and and do stuns and other shenanigans because if you try to nerf those you might unbalance them and make them like ineffective at all so yeah it's a it's a huge concern of mine actually let's say you've got a a fighter and let's say the fighters base kit doesn't have any cc or utility at all but then it become you put a bard's augment on those fighter skills and suddenly that fighter now has cc or utilities or bus whatever how do you then keep the bard as a worthwhile party member when you've suddenly got the fighter who's got more damage and maybe depending on how the fight's designed maybe enough cc or enough utility that you can pass through and then we get in this situation which and this very common in guild wars 2 where you you take the um you have a very specific set of uh classes because they do the most damage while still providing all the other utility and buffs that you need it's it's a it is actually a concern of mine and honestly i don't have a solution really not when not for the uh the class and the augment system that they've already established like unless we have extra information i guess we can't really like we can we can see we craft on this all day but we won't actually understand it until we get more information what about you what do you think i was like look at what wink was saying there in chat too and i go up a little bit further because i saw something that cracked me up and it was not really directly just barbarian from robuda in there i saw barbarian and then i i i'm sorry if you're are you wondering why i was laughing though is that what you're trying to get at anyway i was laughing i muted myself so i wasn't laughing too much and it's mainly because i imagine i'm so sorry faisal just it comes back to this all the time but i thought basil basil the bard bunny that's what i thought is what i thought i knew it i knew it and i i just imagined like i don't know why i was sitting there as i was thinking about it i imagine these new emotes that are in the Ashes of Creation discord by the way that are beautiful by the way stephen that was those are awesome i actually really like yeah i like but i like them all and i've been using them a lot in our discord here in the crusade a lot and i was just imagining the little the little bird characters walking around in like armor you know like one of them plucking away like a harp or something and the other one kind of swinging a sword and the little little bard bunny you know anyway i just kind of imagine one one strumming the chorus and the other ones like chirping along but i can't really like show you all it's just in my head maybe one of these days i can make that happen uh but i'm gonna i'm gonna kind of step back over to so a wink was saying essentially talking about some of these specific ideas around augments and that and it goes back to what fazer was saying a second ago there's just a lot we can theorycraft a lot like i had this conversation the other day and people were like you can't really do any theory crafting with the classes well they gave us four classes and we've got ability sets like whether or not they're going to make it all the way into you know launch is a different story but kenny theorycraft yeah i mean daedalus and i we we went through what was it like two what how long ago was that dude like a year and a half or something at least yeah between the two of us our channel content for months was all about different classes and what you do and what we think they could do and what might be cool ew and it's it's definitely been an ongoing conversation as well yeah for sure but we won't know about these ideas of like dropping a statue and having you know certain aoe abilities tying into that or any of that until we actually get to a place where we have the full class kits and then see how augments work now i mean you can you can theorize how augments are going to work and stephen gated stephen get a good example of the fighter and the mage and like the fighter basically having a charge and then the mage taking the port and like maybe you know instead of uh uh having the charge with the damage at the end like maybe you you pour it over and you do damage and then what are we laughing about chat what is going on uh chat can't see it but i put it in the the discord channel i found i found the picture on facebook i i don't know what to say i would i would totally show that but uh for anybody who is a league of legends fan uh the most will remind the video from you've got that little bunny with his little banjo who's jamming along with the with the group that's phaser what this is yes dude just added i'm going to drop this in our discord and i'd need somebody to turn this into something just soon please for me for me please please oh god side note it's a fan anyone who's into metal music or just league of legends in general it's a fantastic music video you should definitely check out it's awesome awesome song anyway yeah photoshop project yeah we have a couple more points i'm looking at the time and oh my gosh i can't believe do you see what i'm talking about we've skimmed the surface of all of the discussion points in a week everybody and if you you know that forum post alone is probably going to generate even more so we've got plenty to talk about but i want to try to hit on two more discussion points real quick and we'll we'll definitely tie some more in next time and it's okay it's okay cheryl i know you all can't see it on your phones very well it's okay i got you fam i'll be dropping it in discord at the end of this i promise 100 i'm not dude man you are like you're you know you're like you're like slowly becoming the show mascot sort of right look man look man as long as i got some small head to cover it up you got it i got you baby i got you man i got you i got you i was talking to my brother uh earlier about how you know you all give me a fun a hard time about the bald head and the lice justice thing and how there's like this beam of light that could come out of my head or whatever and i'm like dude i need to make like an emo for that you find somebody just make an emo for that just make it a thing people would love it let's talk about this one on the gills large guilds okay need sunglasses it's okay psychopath you're gonna put those sunglasses on you'll be good man it's okay i know it's a lot radiant glory right it's fine large guilds is the question large guilds suffer from server lockouts at times where a server is locked by devs forcing the guilds to split up while we understand the server load at launch will you guys plan ahead and will server transfers will be available now i saw some discussion from people over the the you know past couple days or especially since yesterday talking about like the locking of servers and like kind of uh guilds being able kind of the reservation bit and uh so i'm gonna kind of i'm gonna talk about this particular point that we can kind of bounce around on this one a little bit and and the answer was i was the guild leader of a very very large guild which was built over 15 years ago we had about 14 000 members on our mailing list at one point to clarify it did step down before i started intrepid but a hundred percent uh i do understand the absolute travesty that happens as new as a new game launches one of the things i would like to introduce probably during the beta phase is to allow server reservations this will allow players part of a large guilds to reserve their spots on the servers it's almost impossible to really stop overpopulation launch locking the server temporarily is really the only solution however we can mitigate that issue by allowing character slot reservations this is mostly to be used by guilds instead of solo players solo players may have friends can obviously still use the system but fresh players probably won't want to do it but i do want to state that this is why the testing phases and feedback is so important to us i'm not talking about pre-ordering the game since i'm personally funding the project to completion but it's about having people engaged and constantly providing feedback to help us progress it's important to me to understand the community sentiment so much that sometimes scrolling through the discord forms reading my mobile and i fall asleep letting my mobile follow my face okay i kind of wondered if that ever happened so that's that's good to know that that actually is kind of confirmed in my in my mind i was like is he ever just sitting there really late one night and just pass out with his phone and all right it's cool good to know i had a feeling but anyway i feel like this actually answers a lot of those concerns this is my important takeaway and i'm going to let you guys kind of have the floor here feedback like feedback feedback feedback this is why they want people engaged in providing feedback so that they know this is going to be something that they can really support fully moving into the game but daedalus you look like your wheels are turning buddy yeah i mean actually um you know chat just pretty much you know took my point which i think is is one that we should kind of noodle on a bit here is is the point of a reservation system for us to as a community to know what servers guilds are on or is it still going to be something that's unknown because at the end of the day i don't necessarily see value in reserving it other than potentially like what stephen said trying to mitigate server locks um and and i think that's really kind of the only way you're going to really address that i don't know that server reservations are really going to address that as much as maybe just doing your best to really plan for and forecast server populations and make sure you have an appropriate number of servers because at the end of the day whether you have a guild reservation or not having a reservation you're still going to have a bottleneck on servers if you don't and if if you don't open enough at launch um and you're always you know no matter how many servers you have there's always going to be that odd person or odd guild out that reaches a cap yeah and you're gonna so i mean having maybe some transfers for a limited period might be a good idea um i don't necessarily think you're going to avoid having a single guild server um or can have those or guilds take over a server by having server reservation unless you have some sort of way to say okay you know these are the following guilds that have reserved server a right so that way people who don't necessarily want to be on a single guild server or a bunch of really large guild server they want to be on something that might be a little more dynamic where there might be some interplay they can at least be aware and avoid that so yeah this is an interesting topic i'd like to see how they're going to really test and plan for this um and if you'd be interested to hear what you guys are thinking and chat to of course right well then the other two kind of these two gentlemen sort of head on that a little bit more before i kind of bounce around on the chat too so if i were making a system if i really wanted to do kind of like server reservations for guilds the way i would probably do it is to allow guilds to register in advance and then say how many players they are gonna have in their guild and then that's how many stops they get and and do it like that obviously up to the max which currently the max amount of uh characters you can have is 300 per guild and and just do it like that obviously there's still the issue i'm seeing a lot of people saying in chat that the the issue is uh guild's getting or servers getting swarmed by guilds at launch but really that can happen even if you don't have such a guilt reservation system so i'm i'm not really sure whether whether uh i don't even know the term the whether and the mitigating factor is with that i don't know what you think facial i don't i don't think there's gonna be back there like i think people when an mmrpg's in development and hasn't come out yet people form guilds they are ready they'll play other mmos so that mmo comes out and they just switch when it comes out like i've seen that across the three years period of ashes of creation being developed like i've seen guilds come and go they're there just they're just waiting lurking in the darkness just waiting to to get ashes in their hands so i don't think it's gonna cause that much of a problem um i'm more kind of uh concerned how where are people going to put their nodes really because like if you think about it if you have 10k people in in one server you'll basically spreading them out to 93 people uh per node so if you have like 300 people in one node it's going to basically remove a lot of nodes that are like um separated from like further away regions like corner places like islands and stuff that are very high maintained areas i would call because of the trade systems and other things and Ashes of Creation so i'm more intrigued about how many nodes they're going to be more than guilds really mm-hmm yeah i don't really have too much like in terms of like i think i just don't see them not paying attention to the you know the analytics and behind like you know the people in communities that do you know test some of these systems out as they're going in through these iterations of testing through alphas to betas you know i just don't see them going hey we kind of recognize you know what the population looks like and how this is allowing for the population to to kind of accrue people in this manner and not not finding a way that they can address that to help balance it out i mean you're not going to be able to avoid i mean that the a core element of this game is what like meaningful conflict right so people are going to as guilds align with one another in in these larger kind of alliance factions uh then you've also you know like i think stephen calls these like pseudo-factions and and you've got these um you know you're gonna have mercenaries you've got a lot of different layers that are going to contribute to the dynamic of how people are playing and and what the conflict yeah not futile conflict meaningful conflict not futile conflict and so these like balances of power i mean it's gonna it's gonna shift it's gonna change but and see i think there's some element of that that you're gonna want you know you're gonna want there to be some level of the population that you know does does have a percentage it's like a core of this guild and this guild and this guild uh but i think you know allowing that to be you know overwhelming in terms of one community being able to monopolize something or one you know pseudo faction potentially coming in before the game's even out i just don't see them not paying attention to that and that kind of like uh behavior of the player base but again i go back to i mean that's what the feedback's there for and i don't really have any i don't really have a whole lot to say about it until we get there there's like a lot of things i have my ideas around it but until i see more data or information it it's kind of like up on the shelf waiting um now we have one other point this is like kind of the latter point i gotta find the q a too because this thing was massive and there's a little yeah there is this one is this the one yeah okay here it is right here right talking about yeah going ahead buddy well you do that just one one last quick thing with regarding to guilds i see some people in chat saying oh there's these like mega guilds that have uh got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people and they're just gonna swap the server realistically keeping a guild of more than say 200 or even 300 people together is incredibly difficult the majority of those guilds as soon as there's a single bit of strife they'll just collapse they'll form into cliques they'll form into factions and they'll just break apart because that always happens so i think that's something we need to keep in mind and not go not think that all the big guilds are going to take over the world right it's very rarely done i i i really do i really do agree with mist because as i'm trying to be a traveling merchant i kind of joined a lot of european uh also called discords and i've seen a lot of people where they have more than 300 people and they just collapse over time because they don't know how to maintain such a vast number of people it's not easy to manage at all even if it's like free game launch that is ah so yeah it's a tough cookie to handle really yeah i'm gonna keep this real serious that is where the social bunny thing came from by the way so let's go ahead and talk about this one right here talking about summoning won't family summon ruin the no fast travel mentality the answer there's a cool down period between having and or leaving and joining a family it's in days the summon system is contained within the family unit so if i have an eight-man family limit and i want to summon one of them i can't summon someone from the guild part of another family limiting fast travel limits to zerg mentality it becomes very difficult for players to avoid zergs because if they get wind of something they can very quickly open a portal and stop your fun and that's not to say political information won't play a role i could have a spy and an enemy guild know the time and place and numbers and i could set up a trap we want it to take some time we don't want zergs to quickly group up at the family summon lets you go with your party do a group up but limits mobility for large groups of people tear apart my systems i enjoy reading that stuff i like that i love that going ahead tear this up this is the stuff i want to know about uh but i think that's interesting that's going to add another kind of dynamic to the way people organize their social structures right how do you how do you decide to align your families and then your guilds and things like that i don't know what do you guys think about the the fast travel system for families i think it's unnecessary um i think if you're gonna go with travel is difficult travel is meaningful then you'd make travel meaningful across the board having any type of summit no matter if it's like you know got a huge cooldown and i guess i didn't understand the comment about there's a cooldown to join and leave a family i'd be more concerned about the cooldown and the limit to how many people i could teleport and how long i have to wait before i can do it again um that is is really the crux of the conversation for me but at the end of the day i just don't see the value other than the convenience factor which doesn't make sense with the design we've already seen is that you know coordinating a group needs to happen either you know through tells or through an in or other methods versus the family unit which again i just it just feels like one thing is not like the other here when we talk about this um yeah go ahead i have some thoughts but definitely want to hear what you guys like your coleman or cultivated thoughts are well before i kind of dig in cultivated thoughts yeah oh my goodness um yeah i mean i agree it i i understand where stephen is sort of coming from where he he wants there to be some way of like being able to group up in a pinch but i there were just too many exploits that you could do with it i mean one that i've literally as david was just talking was uh being able to uh use it to abuse the corruption system um because the one of the things about the corruption is that if the crop player dies they get randomly uh respawned around the world if you've got this group this family teleport it doesn't matter where they uh we spawn around the world because you can just teleport them straight back to where you want them to be and that completely nullifies that uh system so yeah i obviously will have to see in testing but i i i get the feeling that stephen is gonna have to backtrack on this a little bit unfortunately oh stephen stephen typed in chat still here with us steven nice to see that he said that 30 minute cooldown yeah so i was curious too because i saw flump when chow was talking about a summoning stone would make more sense and so i was kind of like you talking like hearthstone from like world of warcraft like an in pocket bag sort of an item that has like a cooldown similar to what steven's talking about or in the world because if it's like you know in the world then you know that could be i mean unless you set a limit on how many summons you can have or something that can be a little interesting it's kind of curious where you're going with that but uh yeah lots of really interesting ideas in chat too any other ideas from you all i have some ideas about this but i don't get to it i usually i usually say this if you're going to go with an idea you either go with it like the entire way you either open blood gates or you shut it off completely um because once once you have these types of ideas when it comes to teleporting or fast movements in in mmorpgs or games usually they fall behind okay it starts this way then it leads to this so once even even if it's a small idea which i get people will exploit it one way or another i'm going to read it but as as uh as stephen said in chat uh i mean it can't be summoned while in a combat or while corrupted that actually kind of kind of does work like i can see but it also has to be limited you don't want a huge amount of people traveling from one area to another at a blink of an eye um like maybe limited to five eight people books i don't know in my opinion at least we'll test this out and figure it out yeah i'm gonna read a few comments from chat so psychophobic said that's more i think it's meant to be used outside of guild scenario like the real family scenario my son for example we don't want to spend an hour to help each other so he said jay said he also said that ashes of creation can't be summoned while in combat or while corrupted uh flump said imagine the religious temples having a summoning stone inside them or you uh build them with your node so you can summon randomly but you can summon other nodes because they built their power stones as such uh and wembley said like the idea of certain node type having a summoning perk uh maybe they'll that'll be announced for more detail in the divine notes so yeah they've kind of talked about that a bit already um definitely would say go check out the node blogs on that point but yeah so i think there's some concerns in chat about organizing a zerg all right and like the timing i think the timing and all of that too and i think my my perspective is is that up until recently a lot of people didn't really think there was going to be any travel outside of node-specific type right like they're not really being like a travel system uh unless it was like related to being unlocked in nodes so you can see how that could be something could be concerning it's definitely something that i don't really see as being a problem as long as it's done right but if it allows for people to more easily form a zerg you know and travel across the the map really quickly then that would be it kind of goes against the idea that you want it to you know you want conflict you want to have to actually travel and have to be thoughtful about getting from point a to b and not being something you can just port to i think that's that that's the main perspective in terms of a concern i would have as long as we aren't like you know uh working against that core kind of philosophical perspective for the game that i think we're okay but just my two cents just an opinion just my two cents agreed i i feel like something like this is trying to produce a solution to the problem that may not even exist but i i i personally leave it out and then if there's a problem that this might fix then think about introducing it but i think for now i yeah i don't see the point in it yeah good point mcj said i think if we can test it and show the zerg exploits steven's like okay invite me into the call real quick hold up one second everybody please hold everybody hello canta can't see you but it's okay we can hear you steven yeah i don't have my uh i don't have my webcam it's still on the little tripod thing from the show yesterday wait a second you weren't prepared for this why don't it's all good it does make life easier right so yeah what do you got to say for yourself about this i was just going to put a little bit of context behind it yeah obviously the intent is to uh you know deviate from the typical fast travel type systems that are present in many of the mmos we've played right um but you know with that idea comes a significant uh divide between the more hardcore players who spend a lot of time and game and the people who you know might be working an eight to seven job and only have an hour or two to play each night and their friends who are more hardcore have already progressed you know throughout the world and made it to a dungeon or so they can leverage the family system to quickly navigate so they can capitalize on that one to two hours they may have each night and still participate with those parties in in content so that was my concern is that the divide that's present in having a largely non-fast travel based uh traversal for the world might be a very significant encumbrance for more casual oriented players we can still maintain the the game philosophy in my opinion of mitigating that large group traversal capability uh as long as we contain the fast travel method to a family type system where you can't have people quickly dip out of the family and then add new ones and summon them and the cool down period is quick enough where you can summon you know large amounts of people but rather just contain it to a more like you know constant party type system that was actually something i was curious about was like how how there might be like a cool down for being able to actually leave a family system and reform one and things like that i know you talked about it on there uh you know in terms of uh and family as an example but what's up phaser you got something for him i have a really quick question well what about corrupted people like before the combat starts like you you said during combat they won't be okay period period yeah combat combat status or corruption score um as well as um i'm sorry it's combat status it's corruption score and it's event flag so event flag in the back end is what we use to essentially determine hey this person is a part of an event meaning they are either an attacker or a defender on a caravan or they are an attacker or defender in a castle or node siege um or they're a participant in war so there's a war event occurring either war status between nodes or war status between guilds um or they're a participant in an active arena that's what we call an event flag uh if the event flag is active on the character they also cannot be summoned uh as well oh i gotta i got a good question for you so so i think this is one of the concerns is if you have an eight-man team you could summon like 64 people so how could you know what i mean like having having that many different people that like maybe foreign families they all like coordinate this and they kind of like okay well if we form like our our core ray group into you know however many people and we like split that up into into families with eight person families like is there anything that could potentially work there would be a the way that you would have to to leverage the system would be that you would perfectly plan out the eight member families um to uh essentially let's say you had like like you said a a 40-person you know group raid and each of the five groups are their own separate families of eight uh right and you make sure that one representative from each family would travel together to a location then you could undergo that summoning ritual with all five of those eight member families and groups but that would require some pretty significant coordination which i don't put past people obviously but then that's that's why there's that significant cooldown period as well so it's not possible obviously to create perfect systems but what you want to do is try to create systems that address what you believe are going to be the most prevalent problems right and then um you know mitigate as much as you can the abuse so you said the cooldown on summoning do you have any idea what that's going to look like is it like per person group so it's it's per person essentially if you are summoned if you if you use the summon skill it's a 30 minute cooldown on the summons and the cast time is also a significant like it's it's probably going to be about a minute long or 30 seconds a minute long cast time okay oh cool so it's not gonna be like i can so it's a 30 minute cooldown for the skill and it'll be between a 30 second and one minute cast time to actually summon the individual so it's not going to be like on the fly i just got ganked hey real quick you know i'm going to summon my dude and he's next to me okay okay so you all have been looking at ways you can balance this time limit so it's not like uh get there real quick and get to it in a massive group right realistically cool i know a lot of people in chat are asking a lot of other questions i'm not gonna do that i'm gonna keep it specific to what we're talking about here but yeah so eight person group right person summoning is gonna get the cooldown is that gonna also apply to the other person potentially or no they can they can chain summon at that point the idea is to get your party to where you're at so to speak yeah i think everybody in chat the main the main the thing to keep in mind is you know a lot of this still comes back down to all of y'all helping test and like get feedback too because it's not something they're not paying attention to absolutely yeah and yeah that's i mean i don't know if you want to jump on for just this one topic where i get to the end here i'm not going to try to like set you up for a big q a because believe me they love that they've been they've been getting on me for the past week about that so uh but yeah i i definitely i just wanna i guess two cents here i think you man you rockstar man like thanks buddy jeez man i'll admit i was a little nervous i don't personally enjoy doing just solo streams like i enjoy the interaction and banter of having you know either a co-host or other host or like an interviewer but uh i thought the ama went okay yeah it was good i think that's the first time i i actually saw you and i was like he looks like he's actually kind of caught off guard a little bit with all of this right now i was i messed it i messaged margaret actually like five minutes before she was like are you ready and i was like you know what i think for the first time going on this on a stream i'm actually a little nervous i mean like i'm like what if i'm boring as hell and i just thought that would never happen stephen i mean no no pressure it's only like there were like five or six thousand people watching me during that another 50 60 from asthma goals oh yeah thank god i didn't know that asthma gold was actually uh what was uh showing off the ama otherwise i really would have been nervous oh you didn't know that oh my goodness no i had no idea absolutely like oh my god ezra gold was uh was watching it i was like really that's cool just to all 60 000 other people it's fine no pressure problem i tell you what if i was in your shoe steven i would literally just be shaking i probably have dropped the tablet i would have been shaking so much you know it reminded me actually of the first stream we did back in i think it was like uh i think was the first stream for kickstarter i would i had the same kind of feeling of nervousness but you know like in life and many things practice does make perfect and the more often you do something the more comfortable you become with it so it's always difficult to get over the first hurdle uh like it was for me to get over you know that that solo you know ama uh so i'll feel more comfortable if i do more of those in the future so i'm gonna i'm just gonna just my perspective here so what what i hear you saying is this is a lot of practice for like ashcon one day i'm not going to do it in a you know boring place like anaheim or something let's go to vegas you mean like a launch party yeah exactly steven loves vegas you were traveling there during the asthma thing you talking about the launch party there yeah i just got back from i went to bed i drove to vegas and i had to fly to salt lake city and then i flew to town and i flew back to vegas and drove back to san diego and by the way those flights into vegas or into salt lake or into tahoe are all the worst possible places you can fly into because they have the worst turbulence every time you fly into them and i literally was like holding on to my life as we're like landing in each of the cities just thinking okay i've got the gdd done the funding is ready and available if i die the project will still be completed [Laughter] i mean that's a great perspective to have i think for the community but also your well-being that's hilarious man but yeah dude you've been rocking it man all i have to say is i mean i've been thoroughly overwhelmed with the amount of information coming from not only people joining but just those those live streams i mean you you literally took that and we're like yo yeah i'm just gonna let everybody in the world pretty much know about this right now so let's go yeah i mean i'm you know i'm a yeah i know i've talked on it a lot but um people are always worried like hey you get you get this hyped and the game is just now entering alpha and like how do you you know keep the hype alive i saw what chip just asked that like and that's a really good question that's part of the double-edged sword that is transparency you can't have you know on one end wanting to get early you know input from the player base and talk about the game and when you talk about the game and when the systems resonate with people you're going to naturally make hype but you have to talk about the game if you want the feedback so it's like it's the two it's two sides of the same coin um you know the way we try to combat that is just talking about how there's a long road ahead of us you know the ultimate goal is to create a quality product you know we want to get the launch right we don't want to rush to market um you know there's a lot of systems that are in place here that'll take a lot of fine tuning and balance and that takes a lot of testing and you know when when we undertake that it's it the exchange in exchange for that transparency there has to be patience on the side of the of the player and it it you're not gonna hit everybody's not gonna have patience i think gamers aren't known for their patience which is fine but at the same time like as long as the communication is is continual right and you're seeing progress and you're seeing updates yes you know there was a period of time in in the in the development of ashes where there wasn't a lot of you know updating even though we've done a stream every single month for the past three years straight um and we do show you know progress there are going to be lulls in that progress especially when you're deep in production because you know when you're making games it's just not always market ready it's not always marketing ready i mean there's a lot of gray boxing that happens there's a lot of error and bugs and shit that is there and none of that's pretty uh so you got to be you have to maximize the potential of the impression you're going to make on a new user or a new viewer uh so we have to be very cognizant of this stuff that we show absolutely i totally understand that i get it you know it patience is not always a virtue you know for some it's it's it's tough to be patient when you're waiting for a game i mean some of us realistically understand you know i look at five years and i'm like that's like my baseline for that's like the baseline for me when you think about it mmo and development or you know just in general so not everybody really thinks about that and yeah you're right i think uh i know about the dark period i've even reflected on it talked about like man even i was critical and everything but you got to keep things in perspective i think especially when you really want this but that's just my two cents and i i've definitely preached that gospel a lot of the time around here so you know it's been but yeah man i just wanted to say i think that's you've forgiven killing it so it's awesome to see all the yeah i mean this is the best thing about this is that so when you have that many people in the greater mmo community that now know about it the word of mouth factor is yeah i mean from a from a marketing perspective um you know when i think about games like mmos and the launches that they have i view them as the snowball that's just like you know when development starts and the word starts getting out about what the game's about you know it slowly builds and it slowly builds and having that snowball just continually roll it as we get into like phases like this where you know here we released you know some pre-alpha footage last month that was 4k and people got to see the status of the game um and they get to you know get excited seeing this come to become a reality uh as opposed to you know what many thought was a pipe dream um it's it's going to continue to grow so like what we're experiencing now i don't i don't think is at all indicative of what the status of hype will be as the game enters beta and gets ready to launch like that that is going to be some different degree of octane that you know you rarely see i think in in game launch history so uh pretty excited for that yeah it's good to hear because i've actually thought like like a lot of people are like oh it's the wow killer i was like well he doesn't have the perspective that that's the case but i also kind of wonder if maybe he realizes the momentum this could have so it's kind of good to hear because yeah i think this has got the potential for for something great obviously yeah i have i have a question for you what's up hazel what are you doing on the slate should you be in bed or something yes i'm not gonna deny it and um shouldn't you be prone right now i mean isn't this the time where you're like laying flat on your show yes yeah it's so true he perked up just for you though so [Laughter] look i go down again uh what's it called i had the question for you what was the hardest moment for you for the three-year development that we had so far the hardest you mean [Music] i would say the hardest thing i've had to deal with during this process is it's it's uh i hate to say it but it acts as both fuel for me but also it can definitely be hurtful at times um the most difficult thing probably for me is is reading the just craziness that sometimes pops up on on reddit you know when you when you go to work you know every day and you're seeing people pour their passion and their heart out into working late as nights um you know and building i mean i imagine when this game launches i'm going to be probably pretty fucking emotional but uh when you watch people dedicate their their time away from their families and their kids and they're working on this this game that that they want to deliver to a community to see the happiness and reflection from those people it's difficult sometimes to go and read the comments that are talking about you know this is a scam or you know yeah it's a pyramid scheme or you know shit like that that's even though i can understand it because i know what it's like to be an mmorpg player who's seen games in the past promise stuff and never deliver i i understand the skepticism it still doesn't make it any easier to read true yeah my last question is from uh z's been nagging on me for this for a very long time uh will we ever or i like you don't really need to hit this at all if you don't want to will we ever get the tapper mounts you mean the tape here yes yes the tape here i don't know what that is i mean the tape here is a really cute i think um uh animal it's kind of like a like a little pig elephant um and uh there there definitely could be some similar type creatures that are possible through the animal husbandry system uh but i would say the diversity that's going to exist within that profession is gonna need to be discovered uh there's gonna be a lot of there's gonna be a lot of fun stuff i'll just say that oh man zee's in chat saying i can die peacefully i just want to also outline i just want to also outline this is an example of faizal the social bunny that's all i've got god [Laughter] i can only do it with your bald head i need your light to inspire me that's right and bring the light of justice but it's okay man do you really expect any less for me come on i mean yet what not today not today i haven't gone dark side no not quite nah stephen's here man the glorious phoenix yeah can't do that can't go dark side i mean after darks for another time so we'll do that another time it's stephen man appreciate you well yeah what nothing i didn't mean to uh to extend the show no no you're good you're good i don't think anybody here has got a you know argument or anything against when stephen decides to crash the show so yeah you're more than welcome anytime you know that thanks but for sure man i enjoy watching yeah awesome i'm gonna hop off and keep watching absolutely thanks for joining us later guys thank you stephen thanks steven thanks steven you guys all have to say is is faisals getting really low what's the did you plan that no no i didn't plan it no i didn't either which part stephen jumping on no oh just oh you're the mastermind i'm not a mastermind what are you talking about you guys ask you're talking to me like i have a big plan i can see the light weird wait what just happened i could see the light coming on i guess he like come on like did i have a plan or but or did i it's not the wipe though it's oil man it's a freshly shaven head i shaved it today it's all i can say you know what i know it's really funny is uh my mom dropped by earlier and one of my brothers one of my brothers was here and i haven't seen him in a little bit and he literally walked by and he just did this number to my head and i was like what and i like looked at him and he would he no joke was like he was like he was like it was just really shiny i just wanted to i just had to touch it looked so clean it's like is this how we show our love now thanks baz thanks bro you know jeez i'm not gonna lie if i was with you right now i'd be tempted just to stroke it as well but there we go maybe maybe that can be a thing in simcon where we can all just go up and and stroke sims oh this is getting amazing i would apply the baby powder i don't know oh god man no no no if baby powder and baby oil aren't going to be a thing i'm going to get my own supply don't worry about it okay okay i think that's enough for the shenanigans i feel a path find a revolt happening right about now yeah you know what this is a talking about plans i'm gonna i'm gonna now some of the people that were hanging out this week know um i've been contemplated about it for a while and i have a website and i've been looking at i guess this is an announcement for all of you that weren't here this week when i talked about it with everybody that was kind of hanging out that day uh got the domain already uh you all know that my focus has always been theory crafting discussion obviously discussions here we are and kind of analysis that's kind of my thing i did a about a month or so ago i did a poll and kind of collected some data and this year i've basically streamed every day if you're wondering why i have bags in my eyes well there's your answer every day and it's given me some insight into what content really works the best for me and and what you all really quite frankly enjoy the most and it does come back to discussion analysis and theory crafting and uh with that being said i got the domain and right now it's under construction and and i'm hoping to have it like showcase in some form soon the forms of the first of many steps and uh well what is it sam what is it ashes hq dot com it's a thing i've already got the domain it's being set up now i've got some people in place to help me in terms of content uh people to help me in terms of moderation a little bit if you're interested you're more than welcome to drop me a dm it's gonna be community kind of focused and run and a hub for you theory crafters lore crafters um contributors and the greater greater Ashes of Creation community if you're going like what's the theme you're looking for well it's not a duplicate of it but do you guys remember tank spot that was a great time back in the world of warcraft days it's kind of like what tank spot would be for ash as a creation only you know in the in the form you would expect seeing me do it tank spot was a beautiful resource for like raiding dungeons crafting characters some of the best builds i ever came up with weren't the ones that everybody else used it they were the ones that that that just beacon of light as a paladin on those forums would be sharing with their other theory crafters i remember people who had these compendiums and i learned so much and i want a place for those people to just come cultivate all of their ideas um and you all actually also know another purpose of the pathfinder show once the game gets into launch is taking the the greater stories over these different servers this meta story if you will for these different realities of vera and taking the different stories that unravel or unfold rather on these different servers and we're going to bring that together and cultivate the air on the pathfinder show with different people sharing their experiences and stuff like that at least that's the goal and of course ash's hq is going to be the hub for all these things so you can't actually find it you can bookmark it it isn't up yet but i'll let people know what it is everyone will know and i it's gonna be a lot of fun i'm really looking forward to it um so if you've liked what these shows are about you're definitely gonna like it there so um and with that being said friends it's been a hell of a week steven always a pleasure to have him on yet was not expected the last time wasn't really expected either um you know i'd asked him if he wanted to jump on with us the last time and uh you know he hit me up randomly one day like five minutes before the show the show was going to start he's like yeah i can jump on him like ah okay cool didn't really prepare a q a for this but let's just have fun and it's always a pleasure steven and gentlemen it's always a pleasure and as if you couldn't tell it's about that time if you're watching this live here on twitch uh faisal i can only really see his eyebrows um so gentlemen i'm gonna let you go and let you go ahead and shout out your domains where people can find you in terms of the content you produce and where you're hanging out with the ashes fam uh daedalus all right you can find me on twitter at the ashton herald and on youtube youtube.com c slash ash and herald and faisal our social media you guys can find me on twitch facebook108 and on twitter bagel 108 right and uh wondering missed you can find me on my youtube channel which is wandering list on youtube i put up weekly mmorpg related discussion videos and aside from that you can find me on the ash's official discord and the ashes official forums with the same name and ladies and gentlemen it's always a pleasure i'm gonna go ahead and shout out the number you can leave a message for the show or any of us here or the studio the game obviously steven listens from time to time uh the number is one five three nine six six four six eight one sometimes we'll play them live also you can leave a comment on any of the youtube videos the vods go live the next day the show is live at 5 p.m cdt on sundays here on my channel goes tonight in audio format to the podcast places you can join our twitter at ash's pathfinder to catch up for when everything's live we also retweet stuff from ashes of creation keep you in the know and as always friends it's been a pleasure i'm so morgan host phoenix i'm gonna try to go by phoenix more regularly for reasons in the future but aka some more you guys have a great week we will catch you next time have a great week friends take care everyone bye bye