PvX

Ashes of Creation community empowered Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

We like to really refer to ourselves as a PvX game, because in those systems of PvP, PvE, crafting they're all intertwined: They're interdependent on each other... Our system of development really requires some interdependence there between those things. You're going to need a crafter to give you the best items. You're going to need PvPers to secure cities and castles. You're gonna need PvErs to take down those world bosses for those materials to craft.[1]Steven Sharif

Ashes is a comprehensive game. It is not a PvP focused or a PvE focused, it is a comprehensive PvX game and as a result these systems are all interconnected and have to coexist with one another with certain types of mechanisms that can provide that give and take, that push and shove.[2]Steven Sharif

Ashes of Creation is a PvX game. Players will naturally encounter both PvP and PvE elements.[2][3][4] It is unlikely that a player could purely focus on just PvP or just PvE.[2][1][3][4]

  • Around 80% of the content is open-world, where healthy competition is an instigator for player friction; for potential cooperation; for the ability to yield alliances; and the political theater that comes with it. This is an intended part of the PvX game design.[6][7][8][9][10]
  • There won't be separate PvE and PvP servers but some servers may be more PvP focused than others.[3][11]
We're very clear with our objective and philosophy on the game and we understand that they may not appeal to everybody. But it is an important reciprocal relationship between the content that's related to PvE and the content that's related to PvP and they feed off of each other. They're catalysts for change: Their progression, their development. It's things that people can value when they see something earned and they see something lost. That elicits an emotional response from the player: That they've invested time in to either succeed or fail; and PvP allows for that element to be introduced into gameplay. And we're very clear that is our objective: That risk versus reward relationship, that achievement-based mentality. Not everybody's going to be a winner and that's okay.[10]Steven Sharif
info-orange.pngSome of the following information has not been recently confirmed by the developers and may not be on the current development roadmap.

PvP

Alpha-1 open world caravan PvP.[15]

Player combat in Ashes of Creation is both vast and intimate. It spans many aspects of the game itself. From great political battles held on the fields of massive castles, to open world conflicts fought for the pride of Guild Leaders. A player can choose to participate in the fate of the world by swaying the tide of battle with his or her combat prowess. Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose.[16]

PvP (Player versus player combat) is the catalyst for change in Ashes of Creation.[17] Player combat is intended to be meaningful, ranging from Caravan battles to vast open world conflicts fought for the pride of Kings and Queens.[18]

Because players are motivated by different things, because they want something from the game that other players don't want, that's going to cause people to butt heads. Different players are going to want different experiences and the conflict between the two of them will create a bigger and better thing. Out of strife comes rebirth and that's a core symbol, it's a core theme that occurs throughout the game.[19]Jeffrey Bard
Just because our flagging system gives corruption to PKers, doesn't mean PvP won't happen. There is plenty of reason for PvP to occur open-world.[24]Steven Sharif
Q: Have you considered a high-stakes loot drop PvP zone/area in Verra?
A: We have not; and the reason for that is our current PvP systems already allow for material risk essentially that's either through the flagging system or through other event-based pvp opt-in systems as well.[34]Steven Sharif

Opt-in PvP battlegrounds

The Event system will also create a variety of PvP situations in the open world. From small skirmishes that lead into sieges to battles over capture points during a node or castle siege, PvP objectives will play a crucial role in determining the tide of battle.[36]

The majority of Ashes of Creation players will experience PvP through opt-in objective-based battlegrounds (also called sanctioned PvP events).[37][29][21][30] These are high risk and high reward encounters that do not utilize the corruption system.[21][22][23]

The majority of PvP that players will encounter- the vast majority- will be through consensual systems, meaning opt-in systems like sieges, like caravans, like wars, or going out into the open sea. These are conscious decisions that players will make knowing the risk profile- assessing that- and they will opt-in to those things..[21]Steven Sharif
  • Sanctioned PvP events allow players to join different teams during the event.[37][29][21]
There are going to be events with sanctioned PvP, where there are multiple team options to join.[37]Clayton Stamper
In a sanctioned event- sanctioned meaning that this is something you have the option to opt-out of. That's a castle siege, that's a node siege, that's a caravan, that's a guild war, that's a node war. You can drop your citizenship. You can drop your guild tag. You can drop participating in one of those things. In any of those types of opt-in and opt-out events, the death penalties do not exist. These are sanctioned. They're intended to allow people to engage in PvP. Now if I die to an NPC while I'm out hunting, or if I die to another player through the flagging system, those are where death penalties come into play; and that's where debt experience can be earned; and that's where corruption can be had. So it's important to separate those two realms.[29]Steven Sharif
During PvP events such as caravans, guild wars, and sieges, the death penalties are disabled between participating characters on opposing sides. Attacking and killing players on the opposing side doesn't trigger the purple and red flags, nor does dying drop any resources or loot. However, you can't hide in this state as a Red corrupted player either. If you are Red, you'll still be Red in the siege or caravan and open to anyone to kill you and drop your loot, regardless of the side you are on. Being Red trumps everything.[40]
We will have limited functionality where players can spectate from either ghost camera from fixed positions at certain battlefields; some of which might include castles.[41]Steven Sharif
We will have certain systems that won't lend well to streaming, because certain systems have a requirement of secrecy and/or at least some level of strategic ambiguity. So players need to be conscientious of that fact when they're intending to both stream and play Ashes of Creation. Those are things that we cannot solve because intrigue is an intrinsic part of the game.[42]Steven Sharif
Our castle system, our sieges against nodes, the caravan system, battlegrounds that exist, guild wars: We want there to be a meaning to this conflict. We want players to actually have some skin in the game when it comes to participating in PvP.[19]Steven Sharif

Background

While Ashes of Creation took inspiration from Lineage II (and other games) it has also addressed several flaws in the implementation of those games.[43][44][45][46] The approach of the flagging system in Ashes of Creation is to further disincentivize griefing while still allowing the system to keep risk relevant in the open-world setting.[43]

First and foremost, PvP in Ashes exists in both opt-in systems and events, as well as our open world flagging system. And while it is true that I enjoyed and took much inspiration from games like Lineage 2, we have innovated and adapted our approach to Ashes’ flagging system in order to further disincentivize griefing while still allowing the system to keep risk relevant in the open world setting. The overwhelming majority of player’s experiences with PvP in Ashes will be through consensual systems like caravans, sieges, wars, the open sea and other events. Players will make a choice to participate in those systems or not. And if they choose to participate there will be significant rewards for success.[43]Steven Sharif

In the open world, when competing for the scarcity of resources, raids, dungeons and or hunting grounds, an important element of risk vs reward is introduced through our flagging system. Players must be aware of their surroundings and the reputation of other players who may be in proximity. The flagging system is intended to always provide an element of risk in all settings, but also architected to ensure that griefing and PK’ing is almost never worth it. The subtleties of this system are complex, which is of course why it will require considerable testing and feedback.[43]Steven Sharif

  • Corruption gain takes into account level disparity between the attacker and the player that was killed. The greater the disparity the higher the corruption accrued.[44][47][48][49][39] Corruption penalties occur as the corruption is gained.[50]

These are all things that I've changed in the system that help to safeguard some of those loopholes. Now of course, as we said, we can't and we don't want to 100% remove the ability for that risk to be alive- for that risk to be realized. But what we do want to do is make sure that those occasions are few and infrequent, and are not the majority of a player experience, let's say in the open world; and we do so by incorporating all of those risks and costs into a decision to gain corruption and then PK another player in the open world. It's just not going to be done often and that is my expectation and opinion. It's also the goal of the system is that griefing is not a viable option or play style. And as a result of that desire for the system, we will fine tune it in such a way through testing that that outcome is achieved. And that is the intent and purpose of the design.[51]Steven Sharif

  • Non-combatants can attack corrupted players without flagging themselves as combatants.[51][53]
  • There is a 60 second timer to logout while corrupt. Force-disconnecting the client during the cooldown will leave the character in-game.[51][61]

PvP quests

There will be PvP quests in Ashes of Creation.[62]

There are quests that interact with PvP. PvP is not a secondary component of the game. PvP is an equitable component of the game. Remember we are a PvX game, which means that we emphasize both PvE quest lines and story modes and content as well as PvP. It is an intended design theory for Ashes of Creation that the world is not filled with just your friends. The world is also filled with adversaries; and because of that we will provide opportunities to encourage social friction; and that may be in the form of these PvP oriented questlines.[62]Steven Sharif

Open world

Alpha-1 open world dungeon entrance.[63]

80% of the content that will exist in Ashes of Creation is open-world and there's a specific reason for that. So because of the way that friendships and or enemies are forged in the game and people have the opportunity to create their own friends or foes. We want that to play out from a contesting standpoint as well. So a lot of these hunting grounds or raid bosses that people are going to have opportunities to kill, they're going to be essentially contested potentially by your your enemies that you've created in the game or you can work together to create alliances in order to defend those contested zones.[64]Steven Sharif

Ashes of Creation will be a seamless open-world experience.[65]

  • No loading time or loading screens between regions.[65]

There will be an approximately 80/20 split between open world vs instanced encounters.[66][8][64][67][68]

  • Around 80% of the content is open-world, where healthy competition is an instigator for player friction; for potential cooperation; for the ability to yield alliances; and the political theater that comes with it. This is an intended part of the PvX design of Ashes of Creation.[66][6][8]
In situations where we want to contain a particular type of raid, we will utilize instancing; and that can protect certain engagements with certain bosses. But that's really more on the 20% of the scenarios will have instancing protection like that. Around 80% of the content is open-world, where competition is- healthy competition is an instigator for soft player friction; for potential cooperation; for the ability to yield alliances; and the political theater that comes with it. So that's an intended part of the PvX design of Ashes. It's a core philosophical point. And just to be clear, that is not for everyone. We are not trying to make a product that appeals to every MMO gamer. That's impossible; and so we've been very upfront and forthright with what we are trying to accomplish and what our core pillars of philosophical design are.[8]Steven Sharif
  • Castle and node sieges may contain instanced locations where specific groups can participate in certain objective-based waypoints.[69]
  • Dungeons and raids will maintain an open world feel while also capitalizing on the benefits of instanced mechanics.[70] Instancing is only going to happen in certain dungeons where the desire is to have greater narrative appeal.[8][71] Outside of these and arenas there will not be too much instancing anywhere else.[65]
There will be some open dungeons that have bosses at the end of the dungeons. There will be some open dungeons that just have a multitude of dungeon bosses, not necessarily world raids or something; and there will be lots of different rooms and they'll be progressive in the sense that in the earlier parts of the dungeon they'll be lower level and then at the later parts of the dungeons deeper down they'll be higher level and more difficult; and that creates again I think an ecosystem of where players across a multitude of levels have an opportunity to coexist within certain areas of the world; and that's good from a social dynamic. It's good from a recruitment dynamic. It's good from just a liveliness and relevance of particular areas. So that you don't end up with these locations that once you pass a certain level like it's empty.[72]Steven Sharif
We're probably going to do instancing only in certain dungeons and in arenas. You probably won't see instancing too much anywhere else. What you see is gonna be what you get.[65]Jeffrey Bard

The PvP flagging and corruption system is in place to safeguard against griefing without limiting opportunities for open conflict.[74][8][75]

  • Healthy competition is seen as an instigator for player friction; for potential cooperation; for the ability to yield alliances; and the political theater that comes with it. This is an intended part of the PvX design of Ashes of Creation.[74][8]
  • This friction presents an opportunity to engage in the political aspects of the game, which is the lifeblood of what keeps players interested and invested in the game.[74][8][72]
Q: When you reach the bosses in [open world] dungeons can you be jumped?
A: For the most part if there are bosses at the end of dungeons, it is possible for you to get jumped.[72]Steven Sharif
Q: In an open world dungeon, what prevents others from just waiting until you're at the boss and then killing you and taking your boss's loot? What prevents mega guilds from just owning an area and preventing you from accessing or enjoying it?
A: In a majority of cases, we do not want to prevent another group from engaging potentially in PvP. We disincentivize it by creating safeguards within the flagging system that make that decision very concerning for the people that might go corrupt; and if you're in the large enough group of numbers I doubt you're going to experience that unless there's some rivalry between guilds. In which case there's apparatuses like Guild Wars that are more opt-in. You can drop guild tag if you want. But anyways, the competitive nature of this environment is a PvX element.[8]Steven Sharif

Hunting grounds

You are on the prowl, and notice an unsuspecting player chopping trees. What would you do?[76]

Hunting grounds are open-world PvP corruption-enabled areas that encompass most of the map.[77]

One of the interesting components of Ashes of Creation and our flagging system is that it presents the potential for two conflicting parties to have open conflict in the open world over pretty much anything that they may want or disagree with; and if that pertains to a hunting ground, not just the caravan or the castles or the nodes or whatever, it can exist in that area.[75]Steven Sharif

Outside of PvP for certain things like caravans, sieges of nodes and/or castles is that you're going to have those open-world hunting ground fights that may occur. You're going to have resources fights that may occur. You're going to have political fights that may occur between members of guilds; and we're taking the guild politics to a whole new direction in regards to playing those conflicts out.[79]Steven Sharif

Our PvP mechanics follow a flagging system, as well as static PvP zones at certain points of interest; fight for control over cities, castles, caravans, or hunting grounds. Our PvP is designed to offer the players a well-balanced and fair world to shape through the pen, or sword should they choose.[80]

See also

References

  1. 1.0 1.1 Video, April 16, 2018 (1:32).
  2. 2.0 2.1 2.2 Podcast, April 11, 2021 (38:31).
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 Livestream, May 12, 2017 (24:52).
  4. 4.0 4.1 Livestream, May 5, 2017 (33:25).
  5. Livestream, August 31, 2023 (20:54).
  6. 6.0 6.1 Livestream, May 31, 2023 (45:47).
  7. Livestream, April 7, 2023 (55:22).
  8. 8.0 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.4 8.5 8.6 8.7 8.8 Livestream, March 31, 2023 (1:00:16).
  9. Livestream, October 28, 2022 (32:52).
  10. 10.0 10.1 Livestream, June 1, 2017 (37:39).
  11. MMORPG Interview, 2016-12-12.
  12. pvx stats.png
  13. Livestream, May 15, 2017 (14:05).
  14. Video, May 28, 2021 (25:44).
  15. Video, May 31, 2020 (1:09:50).
  16. About Ashes of Creation.
  17. pvp catalyst.png
  18. Ashes of Creation FAQ.
  19. 19.0 19.1 Video, April 30, 2017 (5:31).
  20. 20.0 20.1 Livestream, October 28, 2022 (1:41:55).
  21. 21.00 21.01 21.02 21.03 21.04 21.05 21.06 21.07 21.08 21.09 21.10 21.11 21.12 21.13 21.14 21.15 21.16 21.17 Livestream, October 28, 2022 (24:28).
  22. 22.0 22.1 22.2 22.3 Livestream, April 29, 2022 (41:27).
  23. 23.0 23.1 23.2 23.3 23.4 23.5 23.6 23.7 23.8 Livestream, May 5, 2017 (14:26).
  24. 24.00 24.01 24.02 24.03 24.04 24.05 24.06 24.07 24.08 24.09 24.10 pvp meaningful.png
  25. 25.0 25.1 Podcast, April 11, 2021 (49:40).
  26. 26.0 26.1 Livestream, November 17, 2017 (45:19).
  27. 27.0 27.1 Livestream, August 26, 2022 (1:00:14).
  28. 28.0 28.1 Livestream, April 30, 2021 (1:06:41).
  29. 29.0 29.1 29.2 29.3 29.4 29.5 Livestream, February 24, 2023 (1:29:45).
  30. 30.0 30.1 30.2 30.3 30.4 Livestream, June 30, 2022 (1:14:52).
  31. 31.0 31.1 31.2 31.3 Livestream, August 27, 2021 (1:22:56).
  32. 32.0 32.1 Livestream, December 22, 2020 (1:13:51).
  33. Livestream, October 28, 2022 (13:53).
  34. Livestream, March 31, 2022 (1:12:27).
  35. Livestream, October 14, 2022 (51:25).
  36. 36.0 36.1 Types of Events on Verra.
  37. 37.0 37.1 37.2 Video, September 29, 2023 (2:59).
  38. Livestream, May 19, 2017 (45:14).
  39. 39.0 39.1 39.2 MMOGames interview, January 2017
  40. 40.0 40.1 jindrack-pvp-events.png
  41. 41.0 41.1 Twitch Bustin - PvP Spectating.
  42. 42.0 42.1 Livestream, October 31, 2023 (1:14:00).
  43. 43.0 43.1 43.2 43.3 43.4 steven-asmon-open-world-pvp.png
  44. 44.0 44.1 44.2 44.3 44.4 44.5 44.6 CC effects do notapply to non-combatants.png
  45. 45.0 45.1 45.2 steven-l2.png
  46. 46.0 46.1 Interview, August 24, 2018 (8:35).
  47. 47.0 47.1 steven-corruption-value.png
  48. 48.0 48.1 Interview, July 18, 2020 (41:54).
  49. 49.0 49.1 steven-corruption-score.png
  50. corruption.jpg
  51. 51.0 51.1 51.2 51.3 51.4 Livestream, October 28, 2022 (26:48).
  52. Interview, July 18, 2020 (44:35).
  53. 53.0 53.1 Interview, April 27, 2017 (0:17).
  54. steven-healing-corrupt.png
  55. Interview, April 22, 2019 (54:40).
  56. Livestream, November 17, 2017 (29:45).
  57. Podcast, April 23, 2018 (51:31).
  58. Livestream, May 22, 2017 (42:33).
  59. Podcast, May 5, 2017 (43:05).
  60. Interview, May 11, 2018 (5:05).
  61. steven-flagging-logout.png
  62. 62.0 62.1 Livestream, May 31, 2023 (1:06:47).
  63. Livestream, April 30, 2020 (1:05:34).
  64. 64.0 64.1 Interview, July 19, 2020 (11:04).
  65. 65.0 65.1 65.2 65.3 Livestream, May 22, 2017 (20:59).
  66. 66.0 66.1 Interview, September 10, 2023 (58:47).
  67. openworldinstancedsplit.png
  68. Livestream, March 28, 2020 (1:48:36).
  69. Livestream, January 28, 2022 (17:50).
  70. dungeon open.png
  71. Podcast, September 29, 2021 (34:11).
  72. 72.0 72.1 72.2 Podcast, September 29, 2021 (35:17).
  73. steven-siege-zone.png
  74. 74.0 74.1 74.2 Livestream, April 28, 2023 (2:06).
  75. 75.0 75.1 Livestream, May 19, 2017 (24:17).
  76. Twitter - What a glorious day for ganking!
  77. 77.0 77.1 Livestream, July 9, 2018 (44:56).
  78. Livestream, November 17, 2017 (45:17).
  79. 79.0 79.1 Livestream, June 1, 2017 (35:42).
  80. pvp about.png